GLENN T. SEABORG Univer.ity of Californio Berkeley, California 94720
Interview with Glenn T Seaborg DAVID W. RIDGWAY University of California Berkeley, California 94720
Dr. Seaborg, we feel that a good starting place lor an interview designed to bring the more "human" side of men and women who have made an Impact on chemical science is to find out something 01 your early fife, that is, special factors or associations (or associates) that might have innuenced your choice 01 a career in science. Many times we find that there was a parental influence or growing up in a chemical or industrial atmosphere. Seaborg: I was born in a little mining town, lshpeming, Michigan on April 19, 1912. One 01 my favorite responses when I am introduced as a native of lshpeming, the audience exhibiting bewilderment as to where this town might be located, is to say "It's near Negaunee." Few people have any more idea where Negaunee is than they do lshpeming but it's part of the so-called UP (Upper Peninsula) 01 Michigan. We moved to California, to a little town called Home Gardens, later changed to South Gate, near Los Angeles. There was really nothing in my grammar school or my associations, or home life either, that greatly influenced my career. I don't believe that I had, other than a very vague idea, what chemistry or physics was by the time I finished grammar school. I went to high school in the district of Los Angeles known as Watts. It is a rather well-known district to your U S . audience. There was no high school in South Gate at that time. We were bussed into Watts (a bit of a switch from our current system) lrom South Gate. I chose not to take any science in my lreshman year at David Starr Jordan High School in Wafts. On looking over the General Science course it seemed to be quite uninteresting, almost completely a matter of memory work. I also didn't take biology in my second year a1 high school because again it didn't seem very interesting to me. By the time I reached the junior year it was pointed out to me that I would need to take a lab-
Ridgway:
Dr. Seahorg, university professor of chemistry at the University of California at Berkeley, was co-recipient of the 1951 Nobel Prize in Chemistry (with Professor E. M . McMillan). He was chairman of the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission for aver ten years and is currently president-elect of the American Chemical Society. 70
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by David Ridgway oratory science course in order to be eligible lor admission to UCLA. I enrolled for chemistry in high school with a Dwight Logan Reed. Chemistry and physics were taught in alternate years, thus my junior year found chemistry as the course being taught. My interest in science was kindled at that time. Mr. Reed was a very inspirational teacher completely dedicated to his subject and obviously interested, exhibiting a tremendous love for the subject. He built up a great human interest in the subject for us through personal insights and points of view on scientific arguments though perhaps not always completely "up to date." It wasn't long belore I was completely enamored of chemistry. After the year of physics, I decided that chemistry was the field in which I wanted to major in college and presumably make my life's work. I liked physics in high school even better than chemistry, but on the advice of friends, and on the basis of personal judgment related to job opportunities in the two lields, I decided to major in chemistry. Ridgway: I mentioned earlier parental influence. Did they encourage your interest in science? Seaborg: Well, interestingly enough, yes, but in a rather unique way, I believe. My mother had ambitions for me in that she wanted me to take a commercial course. I suppose this would be something "cleaner" than, say, being a machinist. My father, grandfather, and my great grandlather were aN machinists. I guess I would have become a machinist, too, but I didn't and have now no talent whatsoever in those lines. Ridgway: Someplace along the line you began to select a particular discipline in chemistry? Seaborg: Yes, I can remember that well too. In my senior year at UCLA I took a course in modern physics from a Prolessor Adams. In that course, he described the recent work in nuclear physics which was just opening up in the early 30's. He described the discoveries of nuclear transmutation, the invention of the cyclotron at Berkeley and the work 01 Ernest Lawrence. My imagination was literafly on fire. Another factor was in the person of Gilbert Newton Lewis, the great physical chemist. Alter some deliberation I decided to apply for and did receive an assistantship lor graduate study at Berkeley. Actually, it was the only place I applied.
Ridgway:
I assume /hat G. N. Lewis played an imporlant parl in your development. Seaborg: Yes, I looked up to him almost as to a god. I had read his book on atomic structure. I t had a good deal of personal history in it, including diagrams from his notebooks indicating how he first got his ideas on the eleciron pair and the octet theory of atomic and molecular structure. I have also indicated, though, that I learned much from Professor Adams, especially about the work of Ernest Lawrence. I also knew that many of /he writers and authors of the textbooks that we were using at UCLA were at Berkeley. Other great names 01 that time should be included-Professors Joel Hildebrand, Wendell Latimer, William Bray, Walter Porler-all of these authored books that we were using in undergraduate courses in chemistry at UCLA. I thought, at that stage, that these must be among the greatest chemists in the world, which they were. All of /his led me to Berkeley. Ridgway: Out of these dislinguished names, whom did you choose as an adviser? Seaborg: I shuck a compromise. I did my graduale work with Professor George Ernest Gibson, logelher with an instructor named Wiiliam Dudley Fowler, a co-worker of Ernest 0. Lawrence in the area of nuclear reactions. Gibson and Fowler were building a small 200 KeV acceleralor specilically designed for deuterons. As it finally turned out, I didn'l do much wilh this accelerator. Fowler left at the end of my third semester as a graduate student to go ta Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore. I wen1 on with Gibson and did a thesis problem on the inelastic scaiiering of fasl neutrons using a radium-beryllium source for the neutron. I obtained my PhD in the spring of 1937. Rather unexpectedly, in facl, truly unexpectedly, Professor Lewis called me in and said thal his posilion of research assistant had become vacant. He offered i l lo me. I was almost overwhelmed. For two years I worked as Lewis's personal research assistant in a chemical area, a buly chemical area in the border area of organic chemistry. I have three publications with Lewis in organic chemistry-a strange situation when I consider my prior and later interests. One is enlitled, as I recall, "Trinitrotriphenylmethide Ion as a Secondary and Primary Base." This interlude was of inestimable value to me. It gave me a great deal of self-confidence, which I needed, working with the man who was, in most people's opinion, the worl6s leading chemist. At the same time I worked in the radiation laboratory wilh J. J. Livingood doing the chemical work on the identificalion of number of radioactive isotopes. I1 was during that period that we synthesized, with Lawrence's 37-in. cyclotron, and chemically identified a number of isotopes /hat have become so imporlant in the intervening years in medicine-for instance, isotopes iron-59, cobalt-60, iodine-131, among olhers. Ridgway: On rellection, now, out of your many contributions to chemistry, is there one /hat you feel has had more of an impacl that others? Seaborg: The discovery of plutonium would answer lhat question. The impact there is probably nearly as great as any single chemlcal discovery. You know its role as the explosive ingredient in the nuclear weapons, but, I hope more important lhan ihat, it has a central role lo play in nuclear power in the future. I t plays a role in the present conventional nuclear reactors because plutonium is generated as a fuel as those reactors operate on the fissionable uranium-235. Plulonium will, of course, play a central role in the fast breeder reactors of the future. Ridgway: I'm sure you have already provided a pariiai answer. What was the state of the "art" in your field when you first decided to bend your energies in thls direction?
In nuclear science? Very crude. I mean we had dilffculty even making the simplest Geiger counter work. This facet alone was always a challenge. . I n facl, we could never know, once we had produced or re1 up an experimental arrangement ihat required the operation of the Geiger counler whether on thal particular day or night it would operate. I say night advisedly because for many months during my graduate research David Grahame, another graduate student, and I worked routinely from about seven or eight at night until about five in the morning. Those were the hours when our radium-beryllium source was available to us. Going back to your question, our main problem then was just having the Geiger counter work. In my work with Livingood that problem didn't exist since we used a Lawilsen Electroscope. It was pretty rudimentary but it did allow the discovery of isotopes iodine-131, cobalt-60, iron-59, as we# as many others. Ridgway: You made quile a transition from the area of collaboration with G- N. Lewis to nuclear chemistry. Were there any problems of retraining yourself? Seaborg: No, not really. Remember, I was concerned with the nuclear area from the beginning. f'd say the retraining was the reverse, more in working with Lewis. My central line 01 research has always been closer to physics in the nuclear field. Even my Ph.D. problem was on the inelastic scatlerins of fast neutrons. About the onlv chemicals we handled were lead, bismuth, tin, zinc and copper. We cast cylinders 01 melals to measure their inelastic scattering cross sections for neutrons. Ridgway: Did funding for equipment, supplies, or lechnical assistance ever present a problem either early in your experimental work or currently? Seaborg: Well, ii certainly did before the war. A little history will help to understand this problem. After I completed my tenure as Gilbert Lewis's research assislanf in 1939, he appointed me as an insiructor on the laculty. Fission had been discovered and reported by Hahn and Strassmann early in 1939. 1 became interested immediately in the atlempts to explain the puzzling activities that had previously been attributed by Hahn and Strassmann to transuranium elemenls. I had the feeling thal there must certainly be real transuranium elements now that Hahn and Strassmann's Iransuranium elements had lumed out lo be fission products. At this stage I began to work with Joe Kennedy, a graduate student Arthur Wahl, and also the noted physicist, Emilio Segre, with whom i had been working in the idenlilication 01 radioactivities before this. The work we did at that time turned oul to be the road to the discovery of plutonium. Remember, now we're in the time frame 01 about 1940 and 41. 1 remember the financial difficulties at that stage. For example, we needed a centrifuge, no more than about a $150 investment. I went to G. N. Lewis himself to try to talk him out of that much money lrom the limited research funds available in the deparlment. I did succeed in doing it, but if was a major decision to aliocate us about $150 for one piece 01 equipment. I also remember when we lound plutonium first through the isotope nfutonium-238. and /hen immedialelv thereafter found the isotope plulonium-239 which is the fissionable isotone, the im~orlantone. We contacted Philin Abelson of the so-called "Uranium Committee." He was sewing as sorl of secretary of ihis "Uranium Committee" a1 this lime and warned us that /his was potentially a very important discovery. He could envisage the government spending as much as one million dollars some day developing this. Of course Kennedy and I thought this must border on nonsense, anybody spending as much as a million dollars on any such project. In the end, 01 course, it was the basis of the plutonium parl of the Manhattan Districl Project, one Seaborg:
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that eventually involved multi-billion dollar expenditures. Ridgway: Were there any other frustrating barriers lhat required unique solutions, money, equipment, or olherwise? Seaborg: Yes, espeiially in a non-technical area. The war came along and Arthur Wahl, one 01 my graduate students who was working on plutinium was subject to call to military service. I wrote almost endless letters and made endless phone calls trying to point out that here was a young man working on a problem which I couldn't identity due to secrecy. He surely must remain available. I don't recall the details bul I lhink it practically went up to the President i n order to keep him and from day to day we all-this was as a big a worry as our work-feared he would be taken away and put into unilorm. That's an example 01 a problem. Anolher problem involved Jack Gofman, another graduate sludent, working on the search lor uranium-233, the other approach to nuclear power, through thorium. In the summer of 1941 when we had worked a lull year on this, I couldn't find a means 01 supporl over the summer period lor him. So, you see, we were no1 in as favorable a position at that time as people may have thought. Ridgway: Obviously, even slier 30 plus years there is much lo be done. What do you see as prime areas for future investigation? Seaborg: Well, my area 01 investigation has been chiefly the transuranium elements anhough r've worked more generally in the lield of nuclear chemistry. Actually ii's necessary to digress to define nuclear chemistry lor you. I deline nuclear chemistry as that area 01 nuclear science in which the chemist works and makes contributions-a rather broad definition, In the lield 01 the transuranium elements, lollowing the work on the discovery of plutonium along about 1941, which lollowed the discovery 01 neptunium, element 93, by McMillan and Abelson in the spring of 1940, my collaborators and I went on to the discovery of the next two elements-95 and 96, americium and curium, at the Metallurgical Laboratory in Chicago during the war. Then elements 97 and 98, berkelium and californium, were discovered back in Berkeley after the war in 1949 and 50. Alter that in a broadei collaboralion with scientists in other laboratories we went on to the discovery 01 elements 99 and 100, einsteinium and fermium, in 1952 and 1953. Then came the discovery 01 element 101, mendelevium, in 1955 and element 102, nobelium, in 1958. Alter lhat, the work was carried on by Albert Ghiorso, who was the leader of the team when I went to Washington in early 1961. Ghiorso and his co-workers discovered element 103, lawrencium, in the spring to 1961. More recently, although there is some controversy as to who the discoverers are, Ghiorso and co-workers we?t on to element 104 in 1969 which he calls rutherlordium and to element 105, which he calls hahnium, in 1970. 1 won't go into this, but there is a Russian team 01 researchers headed up by G. N. Flerov who also make claims to the discovery of elements 104 and 105. They have. their own names-kurchatovium lor 104 and nielsbohrium for 105. Then last year U.S. and Soviet groups laid claim to the discovery of element 106. That brings us "up lo date" on the discovery 01 transuranium elements. Now your question-What about the luture? I f s going lo be very dillicult to synthesize and identily the next iransuranium element. The isotopes of th element 01 atomic number 107 should have hall-lives that are very short, probably less than a second lor the longest lived isotope. More importantly from the standpoint of increasing difficulty, is that yields will be extraordinarily small. We were making rough calculations just the other day and it looks as i l even with the new "Superhilac" 72
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(which recently came into operation here in the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory), we might not produce any more than one atom per ten hours of bombardment. You can well imagine that this is really going to make it difficull lo go on to the next couple of elements, 107 and 108, using the methods lhat have been used lor the synlhesis and idenlification 01 the last lew elements 104, 105, 106. These involve the bombardment 01 heavy isotopes with moderalely heavy ions. The experiments are very dilficult. There is some cause for optimism lor other heavier transuranium elements. Recent (within a hall dozen years) indicalions are lhat on the basis of theorelical calculations, there should be new closed-shell nuclei-magic numbers, as they are called-nuclei in the lar transuranium region. These would be "super heavy" elements. Atomic numbers as much as 110 or 115 or 120 should have nuclei with longer half-lives, not half-lives of a second or less as we find lor element 106. Their half-lives might be minutes or even many years. The predictions are indeed difficult. Now in order to produce these superheavy elements it will be necessary to have heavier heavy ions than we have been using in the past. I visualize heavy ions such as S,Xe, or mHg, or maybe even uranium itsell, ,,U. That is one 01 the reasons that we here at the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory have rebuilt the "Hilac" accelerator inlo what we call the "Superhilac." Its ultimate capability of accelerating even uranium ions is hoped lor. We're just in the process now 01 bringing this Superhilac into operation. We plan to try to synthesize and identify these superheavy elemenls. There are several ways of identifying them. In one there would just be chemical identilications much the same as we used in the identilicalion of plutonium, americium, curium, berkelium, calilornium and some 01 the other transuranium elements. Another is a physical approach, measuring the mass and lhe alomic number through modified mass spectrographic techniques. We're going to use both. Ghiorso is specializing in this "mass spec" approach. So, superheavy elements might be the next big step but even if this step isn't taken, because of low yields, we do think we'll learn a lot about nuclear sbucture by studying reactions with these very heavy ions. We are looking forward to a lruitful area of investigation. Ridgway: I think I can predict your answer, but let me ask the question anyway. What new tools are now available that might provide the expectations of large or even small quantum jumps in our knowledge in this area.
Seaborg:
The Superhilac, 01 course! The new methods of detection-the solid state detectors for the detection of the radiation-that is, alpha particles and gamma rays-also new systems of transport of the transmutation products. In the latter, when you do produce an atom 01 one of these heavy transuranium elements, it is projected from the target, because 01 its momentum imparted in the reaction in which it is produced, and then caughl up in the stream 01 gas, helium for example. . . and swept alona to the point where vou have the counters and the detection apparatus. This is a very advanced and sophisticated method 01 transporting single atoms. We were incapable of doing this just a few years ago. Keep in mind, these heavy transuranium elements from elemenl 101 on (102, 103, 104, 105, 106) have been produced on a "one atom at a time" basis. In other words, we work with single atoms in the detection and this will surely be required of us in our search lor the superheavy elemenls. I1 will be necessary to identily these on a "one atom at a time" basis, and here again, lhere have been so many
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advances in techniques. I t is becoming an everyday type 01 experimentation in our laboratory, one I would not have thought could exist, say 20 years ago. Albert Ghiorso has been responsible for much of the work on the solid s b f e detectors as well as other means of detecting radiation, the techniques that go with our use of the Superhilac. All in all, 01 course, we benefit from the advances, over the world, on a broad front. Ridgway:
What do you look for in a young person who wishes lo work with you in your research program? Are there personality traits or an educational background that would he$ in identifying a productive student? Seaborg: Cerfainly I try to identify intelligence and creallvity and very importantly, industry, that is the willingness to work hard which leads to dedication. All 01 these are imporfant, but unfortunately, not always easy to identity belore the person starfs to work. Today there is beffer preliminary training in the sciences. Whether there is as much dedication from the standpoint of being automatically willing to work ail night, missing meals to become lost in the work-whether that is as prevafent as it was in those days we just discussedbefore the war-I'm not so sure.
Ridgway:
Do you have any strong feelings about our present educational process? Seaborg: No, as an educator, I feel that I am now and have been in an excellent position right here to exert influence to change anything that I see wrong. By here I mean at the University of California. I don't see any gross deficiencies fhat I think demand reform or I Would have tried to correct them. Ridgway: We talked earlier about more funding problems. More recently has the support of your work and that of your co-workers been a problem?
Seaborg:
Picking up from the end 01 WWll when I and a number of my colleagues returned from the wartime Metallurgical Laboratory at the University of Chicago, I would say that we had very sunnort right lrom . good . .. the beginning-support that those 01 us who were in the field before the war certainly had not, at that time, been accustomed to. There was some fear /hat this new level of supporf, making possible research on a scale that we never had found possible before coming as it did from the government, would not be a permanent or secure source 01 support. There were a number who lelt thaf maybe for that reason we shouldn't take advanlage 01 it. I was never in that group. I felt that it would be sulliciently secure and thaf if cerfainly would increase the scope and the range of the research that we could do. This support was continued on a steady basis, growing until the late 1960's when the well-known leveling 011 occurred. That process did affect the work in the lields fhat I've been concerned with, the transuranium element field, not only here in the Nuclear Chemistry Division at the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory but in other laboratories throughout the country. I should say too thaf there are many.. other laboratories doing first class work on the transuranium elements. Since my return to Berkeley in the fall of 1971 there has been a tight budget situation. We actually had to let people go-terminate Wlem -for the first time. It has been a nip and tuck affair. This is particularly true with respect to puffing the Superhilac in operation. The effects of inflation and a level or slightly diminishing budget has made the "debugging" operation af the Superhilac a very difficult one and a drawn-out one. We just haven't had the technicians, the engineers that one usually has and should have for such a complicated problem. Good work is still coming out and there is hope that there will be some alleviation 01 the financial problems in the future.
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Rldgway:
Now we come to quite a different area, research and teaching or research versus teaching. Do you consider in your own pursuits in the academic life a dichotomy between teaching and research?
Seaborg:
Definitely not! I think they go together very well. I teach freshman chemistry and it's a joy to meet my freshman chemistry sections. It gives me a better perspective even though il's at the beginning level. In addition, the fact that I'm conducting research helps (in my opinion) freshman chemistry. As your readers well know, freshman chemistry is a sophisticated and complicated subject these days. I must admit when I came back from my ten year stint in Washington as Chairman of the AEC, there had been much water under the bridge. I had to study hard in order to get back into the swing of things. Being connected with a research program in a subject as broad as the transuranlum elements, their chemical properties, everything that goes with it, definitely contributes to my abilifies as a teacher. I don't think that this research program detracts from my teaching. It very delinitely adds to if. Ridgway: Your impact on the scientific community is not dilliCur to assess, but fhe extent which your contributions have had on the total health, environment or even upon our life style, deserves comment. Seaborg: There have been many kinds of confributlons. Just in the one area 01 radioactive isotopes we find that three of the isotopes that I and my co-workers discovered -iodine-131, cobalt-60 and technetium-99m account for about 90% of all the administrations 01 radioactive isotopes in our hospitals today in the diagnosis and treatment 01 disease. That alone certainly constitutes an impact. The impact 01 plutonium, as plutonium-239, is almost too great to try to describe. Many of the other transuranium isotopes and elements have had an impact. Another isotope of plutonium, plutonium-238, is used as the source 01 power for the electricity generating apparati left on the moon-the so-called Snap devices, Snap-27. Californium-252 has a broad range of applications, because it emits neutrons in its decay, lor use in such places as neutron activation analysis, expioration for ore, oil-weti logging, even in potential cancer therapy where experiments are going on now to see whether little needles 01 californium-252, emitting neutrons, can be implanted directly in cancers to take advantage 01 their possible therapeutic effect. I'd say that we have just barely touched the surface here. There has been tremendous impact. Ridgway: We are well aware of the criticisms of the general public toward the scientist in creating some 01 the "iNs" of the world. Are there special responsibilities that the scientist should bear toward society? Seaborg: I believe there are. The scientist has information and knowledge that affects the lives of everyone to an increasing degree in our scientilic and technological age. A scientist or engineer should be concerned with increasing the public understanding of science. He should try to do his part in communicating with the public through all kinds of media-writing articles and books and also television-in contributing in general to such public understanding 01 science. I would go further and say that where the scientist or engineer has the talent he should be involved in governmental affairs. He should be willing at some stage in his career to accept responsibility at whatever level he is equipped. In some cases, when he is qualified, the scientist or engineer should be willing to run lor public Office as well as serve in appointive governmental offices. His counsel, his advice, his general perspective are all needed. Ridgway:
You devoted a decade to government service at a Volume 52. Number 2, February 1975
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high level. Can you share some experiences and interactions with our readers? Seaborg: Yes, 01 course. In my position as Chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission, we had relations with the Environmental Protection Agency and the Council on Environmental Quality in the White House as welt as numerous regulatory bodies. I feet that I've been very conscious of the potential impact of nuclear power plants and other scientilic and technological appticalions on the environment. I might say that since I've returned to the University of California, I have become quite involved in a number ot environmental matters. I served on the Citizens Task Force of the East Bay Regional Park District which, by the way, is probably the number one regional park district in the United States. This Task Force was charged with providing guidance in a master plan lor the whole East Bay Regional Park District. I also served there as Chairman 01 the Traits Subcommittee. I'm also serving as Chairman 01 a citizens group known as Citizens for Urban Wilderness Areas, CUWA, which is composed of representatives of about 30 conservation-minded organizations in the San Francisco Bay Area. Ridgway: May we pry a bit into some 01 the personal and nontechnical aspects of your tile. What are the major activities that you feet have helped to enrich your tile outside 01 the professional sphere? Seaborg: ~thtetics,I guess, is one. More recently my interest in the environment and outdoor, hiking groups that I've become connected with. I have always been interested in athletics, both as a spectator and to a Iimited extent, as a participant. In the 1950's, I was appointed the Berkeley campus Faculty Athletic Representative to the Pacific Coast Intercollegiate Athletic Conference. It's a position in which I served for six years--a very lively six years. I came into contact with an entirety different group 01 people than I had been used to in my work in science. As a quick aside here, let me say that I believe it is as the result 01 my activities as the Faculty Athletic Representative that f was appointed Chancellor of the Berkeley Campus at the University of Catilornia. And it was probably as a result 01 my activities and service in that position that I was appointed Chairman 01 the Atomic Energy Commission. Wouldn't you agree that it was an interesting chain of events. Much seems to depend on a person's activities and performance in a broader vein than just in the science lietd. These lead on to other activities and to other assignments. Ridgway: Anything in the line of literature, art, international sffairs? Seaborg: I have also been very interested in international activities. These were emphasized during my ten years as Chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission. I visited more than 60 countries and usually my visits went beyond what might be associated with my rote as Chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission. I was interested in cooperation in science and the improvement 01 relations between our countries, using science as a bridge. tnctuded were investigations of how science and technology might be used to improve the welfare of the people in the country visited. This international interest carried over into my rote as President-elect, President, and Chairman of the Board of the American Association for the Advancement 01 Science. At the international meeting 01 the AAAS held in Mexico City in 1973, and 01 which t served as Co-chairman at this meeting entitled "Science and Man h the Americas," I made the proposal that the American Association lor the Advancement 01 Science go international. That is, that we first expand and be-
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come a true American Association tor the Advancement 01 Science including the countries of the Americas and then go beyond that to become an tnternationat Association for the Advancement of Science. This leads me to say, in tine with your query as to areas outside of my chosen field where I've become involved, the American Association for the Advancement of Science, during my three years in the offices there, opened up a new world of acquaintance with scientists in other disciplines and nonscientists. The AAAS is moving seriously into the whole area 01 the application 01 science and technology for the benefit 01 mankind and I hope now will also expand its scope to the international arena. I now took lorward to my tenure as President-elect and then President in 1976 of the American Chemical Society. Ridgway: And one area that we also have not touched on, you've had more than a casual interest in secondary education-with CHEM Study. Seaborg: This program opened up stilt another field of fruitlul contacts, those with high school teachers and educators. Ridgway: Have your interests and accomplishments had an effect on the education or professional accomplishments of your own children? Seaborg: Yes. Certainty. To begin with, I'N narrow your question a tittle bit. t leef that the general attitude (without pressure) 01 Mrs. Seaborg and myself in our home has led to the assumption on the part 01 all six of our chitdren, live I can speak to for sure because they have done it, and the sixth has every indication of going in that direction, that they should go to college. Several are going on to graduate school. I speak now however in terms of the general atmosphere. With respect to my own interests and accomplishments and their elfect on the children, perhaps there was even a negative ellect or tendency for them to avoid physical science as a field. Actually, I have one son who majored in zoology. t have a daughter who is in graduate school in clinical psychology at Purdue. I have the leeling that though they have not avoided all physical science they have certainty not been attracted toward chemistry or physics as a life's work. Ridgway: The dividing tines in the disciplines are disappearing. Is this process desirable? If it is, how can it be speeded up? Seaborg: I think the process is desirable. I don't know that we need to take concrete steps to speed it up. I think if's coming. I think that as the toots and techniques become more sophisticated, and the fields spread, it becomes more and more obvious to a larger number of people that they can attack the problems on the frontiers of knowledge better in the areas of the boundaries between disciplines than in the very center of their own discipline. Certainty the assault on cancer is mutti-disciplinary and not welt enough funded in the biological area. Studies in aging and the bases 01 life necessitate dissolving boundaries. Ridgway: May I conclude with a "20-20 hindsight" question? Let us assume you are again a 21-year old emerging from a BS or BA. What do you think you would plan as a tuture career in our present world situation? How different from what you did choose? Seaborg: Now in 1975 1 think I would go into biology. f believe that this is the area where the greatest contributions to knowledge, to mankind, to human welfare, to the satisfaction 01 one's curiosity and one's drive towards inteNectuatachievement can be made. Thus in addition to greater support for basic chemistry which I strongly lee1 is needed, I would like to suggest augmented support lor basic biology. I just
he1 that we are now on the verge 01 bin discoveries in biology. M one likes to be on the lrontier where the action is, I would think it would be more in biology
today than b some 01 the other fields. I t I were 21 years old today with 50 more years to go. t would choose a career in biology.
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